Creative caught crippling their products!!!

[Mach]

If you read through the thread, the reason that Creative cracked down on the guy was that he asked for money to continue to enable the new creative software for other manufacturer's cards.

My last ALchemy release (1.00.0 was complately unlocked and could be used with any sound device from any vendor.

oRly? WTF did he think was going to happen?

Could Creative have handled support for their products better? Not sure what's involved in Vista testing but I'd bet money that Daniel_K did not test his "mods" at the same level Creative is required to test for Vista certification.

They certainly could have handled the PR better but meh, welcome to Web 2.0 where its shoot first and ask questions later. Here's the original text of the response from Creative. All fairly reasonable.

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

[xRyokenx]

From what they said it's like they said they don't mind him helping users, but they aren't happy with him making it so their products run on Vista... you'd think they would want their stuff to work with Vista, as soon as XP is entirely phased out then there goes the market...

[crenn]

The market isn't 100% dead, take a look at the Auzentech Drivers. They are custom, not creative.

[chaksq]

From what they said it's like they said they don't mind him helping users, but they aren't happy with him making it so their products run on Vista... you'd think they would want their stuff to work with Vista, as soon as XP is entirely phased out then there goes the market...

They want their X-Fi cards to work on Vista, not their cheaper cards, that way people are forced to buy the more expensive cards that may be more than most people need. Hence the main point of this topic.

[xRyokenx]

They want their X-Fi cards to work on Vista, not their cheaper cards, that way people are forced to buy the more expensive cards that may be more than most people need. Hence the main point of this topic.

Ahh, okay. Must've gotten confused somewhere.

But don't most people buy Dells and other prebuilts like that? In that case most people wouldn't even need to buy them. And PC builders can get other brands as we know better. What a dumbassed decision.

[Tech-Daddy]

You guys remember the Audigy cards? The Live! sound cards?

Would you be pissed if your perfectly functioning card suddenly stopped working because you upgraded your OS? And then found out, the OS upgrade did not cause the loss inf functionality... but the friggen manufacturer decided *for you* that your card was "too old" and that they were going to make you think you needed a new card? WHEN YOU DID NOT NEED ONE TO BEGIN WITH!??!?

BS... plain and simple. To *purposefully* cripple a purchased piece of hardware that if functioning perfectly.... in the hopes of fooling the customer into thinking that they must replace it with a newer piece of hardware to make it *work with the new OS* is such a line of crap... I honestly cannot see where capitalism plays into this.

You are willfully and purposefully deceiving end users and maliciously altering their functionality to create a false sense of need.

Period.

It is indefensible... it is a lie.... and I will not support *any* company that treats it's customer base like that.

Oh, and the donations? He made, over the course of 22k downloads of his software... a whopping $149. Not even enough to by an X-Fi card in Brazil (which is why he was taking donations so that he could continue his development).

Wooo... hold on. He was making too much money! Damn, somebody call the cops on him!
....
whatever....

[Drum Thumper]

It is indefensible... it is a lie.... and I will not support *any* company that treats it's customer base like that.

Two questions: any of the supermarkets in your area have loyalty cards? Do you shop at those stores?

Yes, a similar yet slightly different tangent of a take on this. You have a card, you get lower prices on some items. If you don't, you pay more. Why? So whatever company this is can track what you buy. They claim it's for canvassing their market to bring you better deals. However; prices tend to inflate...the ol' "mark it up to mark it down" scheme.

Never mind the fact that these so called loyalty cards infringe on your Fourth Amendment rights.

A free people does not show identity to buy a loaf of bread.

All right, now that I got that off my chest:

TD, you make very valid points. I can see an 'average' user being royally pissed that their cards don't work due to a so called 'upgrade'. I also agree with you on nearly every point you make. Lets face it though--while we (as in this community) were all 'average' users at one point in time, it's safe to say we're not anymore. A large portion of problems are child's play to us.

And honestly, if I was to build a Vista machine, it'd have top of the line everything.

As for the donations, that's why he got nailed. While his heart was in the right place, I'm sure that by taking those donations, he committed copyright infringement.

We see it as "purposely" crippling otherwise fine hardware, due to the fact that we are on the outside looking in. To the outsider, yes, that is exactly what it looks like. But what do we NOT know?

How is this any different than the sheep who bought the Iphone the day it came out, only to see the price drop a few months down the road?

It may seem that I'm defending Creative. Yes and no. I will not make a final decision either way until all the cards are on the table.

[Tech-Daddy]

I'm sorry DT...

Then you need to shop at a different store, because I get *great* coupons that are customized for my shopping habits, on the brands that I buy. I also get discounted gas because of said 4th amendment encroaching loyalty card. But what in the hell has that got to do with the malicious intent of a company to falsify the working of it's hardware?

With a loyalty card, you can choose. You can choose to use it and pay lower prices and loose a bit of your privacy for the sake of saving money. You can choose to shop there without the card, shop in disguise, and pay some of the high prices, or you can choose to go shop elsewhere to get the same product or service. Choice is the key.

Creative was making that "choice" for the end user. We did not have a "choice" in the land of Creative until these modded drivers came out. Our only "choice" (which was an illusion put forth by Creative) was to upgrade the hardware to get what we wanted. To get what "should have been working, but was not"....

I'm sorry, but the 4th amendment and loyalty cards is a huge stretch... considering the 4th is primarily about search and seizure, and tickles around electronic surveillance. If you are classing usage of a loyalty card as electronic surveillance, I think that goes against the spirit of the statement

" The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

My shopping habits can be harvested by anyone. And they could spend even more money tracking my purchasing habits which *would* warrant interpretation of the 4th, specifically unreasonable searches into my financial property.

But by having the card, I am giving them permission to watch what I purchase for the lure of better prices on food and gas? Will they use it for targeted advertising, yes. Will they use it for market research, yes. Do I care... no. I have a certain expectation of the card's usage and so long as that expectation and benefit continue, then I will keep using hte card.

But by having a "Creative" sound card, I was given a list of benefits for having the card. A card that I purchased. Then "Creative" neutered my card in front of me by crippling the drives... for no other reason than to drive the purchase of additional hardware that was not needed to begin with, because the lack of functionality was artificially induced.

[The boy 4rm oz]

This coming from a company as big as Creative I am disgusted. I don't own any creative products and probably never will now. I was looking at getting a sound card but if I do now I will be definitely getting one of those Azuntek (bad spelling I know) ones. I was also looking at their speakers but now I think I will stick with Logitech and Altec Lansing.

[Drum Thumper]

First off, yes it was a bit of a rant on my part regarding loyalty cards. I'm employed by a grocery chain whose corporate management swore up and down that loyalty cards would never be a factor. Our old slogan was "Club Card Savings Without The Card."

The Fourth deals with illegal search and seizure. The loyalty card comparison deals with the former, not the latter.

Oh, and those savings on gas? They're in place because the grocery stores that have attached gas stations can afford those losses. When the gas side goes in the red, any of the other in-store departments can easily cover those losses and still turn a profit.

And I would love to be able to shop at a different store. But if I do that, I'm hurting myself, since that money (however little it is) doesn't get funneled back into my paycheck when I shop the competition.

Consider this scenario: You use your loyalty card, you pay by check. Now the grocery store not only has your assigned loyalty card number, but they now have your bank routing number and your account number. It doesn't take much coding to link those two together in what I call the 'back end' operations. Do they do this? Some chains have in the past--and surprise! Tidyman's is no longer in existence. They even offered to directly debit your checking account just by swiping your loyalty card at one point in time. Mismanagement in this area and across the company as a whole is what destroyed them.

Anyways, enough of the derailment. Lets get back on track.

TBH, this thread was the first I had heard about this. I've spent the last few days going over the link you posted to creative's forum--lots of hostility there, and rightly so. I'm on the outside looking in--my main machine runs XP, my laptop runs Vista (and it's horrid in my book), and my next build for my main machine will undoubtedly be *nix based. Why? Honestly, my computing habits have changed. I'm a reformed Warcraft addict. Now, my computing time is spent in other areas that are most definitely not game related in any way. So, do I really need to worry about Creative cards? Not really, on board sound works just fine, especially since I use headphones a large portion of the time. And yes, I know I have a Creative card in my jukebox build. And it is (to quote Blizzard) "Working as Intended". Had I read this thread before I bought the card...well, I might have gotten the Turtle Beach card instead.

I honestly think this whole thing can be summed up by this: Yes, legally, Creative had every right to do what they did. But where does it stand morally?