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Thread: Which Speakers to get?

  1. #21
    I mod everything I touch. Indybird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    ok, now Im curious. I got the Logitech Z-5500's, and as far I can tell, they are great. Heres the specs. How do they checkout as far as either of you are concerned?

    /sorry for the thread hijack/

    -Indybird

  2. #22
    Religiously tolerant. Luke122's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    They dont really publish much as far as frequency response, but here's what I found on the link you gave.

    Technical Specifications

    o Total FTC power: 505 watts RMS
    Sub-woofer: 188 watts RMS (into 8 ohms, @ 100Hz, @ 10% THD)
    Satellites:
    Left/Right: 62 watts RMS x 2 (into 8 ohms, @ 1khz, @ 10% THD)
    Center: 69 watts RMS (into 8 ohms, @ 1kHz, @ 10% THD)
    Rear Left & Right: 62 watts RMS x 2 (into 8 ohms, @ 1kHz, @ 10% THD)
    o Total Peak power: 1010 watts
    o Maximum SPL: >115 dB
    o Frequency response: 33 Hz — 20 kHz
    o Amplifier: Ultra-linear, high-capacity analog
    o Signal to noise ratio: >93.5 dB, typical 100

    --------

    Straight away, I'm worried to see 10% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion).. that's actually quite a high number. However, that is at fairly high volume (60+ watts on the speaks and 180+watts on the sub). You certainly wouldn't spend long periods of time listening at that volume, even during movies or game sessions. I know some of you are saying, "YES, I WOULD!" but that's like full volume. No, you dont.

    Frequency response is much better... 33hz - 20khz is actually quite good. 115 db spl (sound pressure level, or loudness) is siiiiick loud. Polk SRT systems cost $20k+ and hit 120db, so this will be plenty loud for most scenarios. However, that volume level will have tons of distortion, so it's unlikely you'd like it much at that volume.

    The signal to noise ratio is not bad.. average 100db would make this a decent system for movies and games.

    I should clarify here that I'm a real serious 2 channel audio guy.. I know my way around a 5.1 setup (and 7.1, etc) but my true passion is in stereo. The specs and theories are all the same, but there is a pretty big difference, not only in the number of speakers, but the needed response from a system without a sub.

    My setup is running 15watts per channel PEAK, or about 8watts average to a pair of 2 way (woofer and tweeter) bookshelf speakers through my own custom built Cat5 speaker wire. The speakers are rated to 60watts each, so no chance of overpowering them exists at the moment.

    They are running approx 70hz to 20khz, but they are ported, and set close the wall for a bit more bass output. The stands are mass loaded (filled with sand), and isolated with spikes to increase the bass also.

    My audio source is a SCPH-1001 Playstation (1st Gen) with custom made interconnects with gold plated ends, and my amp is a Sonica Super T-amp with no mods at this time.

    The total cost of the system is under $200, and thanks to Airbozo, my new speaker plans and drivers have arrived at the office today (Total cost including shipping: $75 CAD) so I'll pick those up tomorrow when I go back to work. The cabinets should cost about $100 for material and labor, and I'll end up with a system that will rival setups costing $10-20,000 dollars for quality and clarity.

    My next plan is a Bottlehead tube pre-amp, ($99 kit) which should really make a difference.

    \m/ d(-_-)b \m/

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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    -This means that from 280hz (mid-bass.. a good fullrange speaker should get at LEAST to 100hz) to 13.3khz (humans can hear up to 20khz), there should be no more than 10.5db of difference. That is CRAP!!!! 3db = 10x louder! 10.5 db is a totally unacceptable number! So some frequencies will play 1000x louder than others?
    Sorry for butting in.. but... errm.. Are you sure about the 1000x? I think it should be smaller.. say like.. 8.. or 10x max.. when we talk about decibels, we should consider the mathematical formula from which this number arises.. it is relative, but I'd say that the difference in sound that the user perceives is like .. much less check at least wikipedia, if not a book, to make sure (I may be right or wrong, but some memories tell me I'm close).. the difference you should note is between electrical stuff and acoustics I do agree that 10db is waaaay too loose a tolerance, as 3db is the limit.. 1db is noticeable, while a 3db difference is a doubling in sound intensity (higer frequencies are more noticed till at a point, then the ear mechanics go into play, high and low).. if you add up to 10db, logarithmically or logically, you get less than 1000 Anyhow, human hearing is very different than a chart will try to tell.. it is true that some might try to lure the untrained with technical data and stuff.. that's marketing for them And going as low as 50Hz should be possible, if you use some tricks when doing your sound setup, even with cheaper stuff One thing to note is that you can make a perfect cabinet only coupled with the room.. Box, speaker, room and other volumes interact to create the sound.. very complicated.. nut humans make compromises.

    The z-5500 being THX certified, it will abide by their distortion tolerances: very low. You can't push them too far cause the ones who made them thought a little and wont allow you to go into clipping. A neighbor has them and I'm not bothered by them: I sometimes turn down my music to see what he is listening to Very good, clean sound. But that is the illusion 5.1 gives A good sound card will make them sound even better.

    Errm.. I'll hide in my cave now and continue with case design

    |Projects: =N0Name= =Tensa case= || Life: waiting for the download to be completed... BSOD"|

  4. #24
    Fresh Paint
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgrmkrp View Post
    if you add up to 10db, logarithmically or logically, you get less than 1000
    10 db +/- is roughly 14 times louder or quieter in specific frequencies... and yes... +/- 3 db should be the most a true audiophile would be content with... and 1% over the entire spectrum is not as hard as you would think.


    now those numbers are only truely perfect to a machine since a human being will pick up on more higher freq notes and shorter length *burst* notes...

    a short high pitched picoloe is more noticable to the human ear than a french horn even if they are both played at exactly perfect duplicate volume and over a high end audiphile grade system you will think the picoloe is louder than the french horn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke122 View Post
    You certainly wouldn't spend long periods of time listening at that volume, even during movies or game sessions. I know some of you are saying, "YES, I WOULD!" but that's like full volume. No, you dont.
    trust him he's right... most of you have probably never heard of "ear fatique" but this is a condition caused by listening to poor quality stereo's and pushing stereo's beyond their limit and causing inaudible, and audible distortion.

    This causes your ear and brain to try to tune out loads of trash that you don't recognise and don't even notice... becuase you are focusing on the music but your brain and ears are working overtime to filter the noise and trash so you can hear your music...

    Listening to these speakers at those power levels will literally cause headache's, not from the volume but from your mind trying to filter out the noise from the music. but at lower volumes say, 60-80 db they will sound very clean a clear...

    THX is not the best by any means, but it at least sets a industry standard for decent audio gear.

    now... volume without distortion is a whole new ballpark... if the system is of high quality and high power or high eficiency or both... you can easily damage your hearing without ever knowing it becuase of lack of distortion you push the volume far higher than your hearing can safely tolerate.

    I have to be carefull of this with my system becuase the overall THD is less than .05% at 101 db's due to speaker efficiency and amplifier headroom and higher quality of equipment. It's very easy to push the system to over 120 db's with negligable amounts of distortion as long as rms power and peak headrooms are carefully monitered and controlled to eliminate clipping and monitering input voltages.

    However i do like listening to music at these volumes... the clearness and things you never heard before is breathtaking. For example the William tell ovature played on this system you can make out the Clarinet player tapping the pads of the keys against the body of the instrument... totally inaudible on many other stereo's, being able to hear the people breathing as a soloist performes urges you to turn it up more to hear what else you might be missing.

    It's like looking at the sun without filters... it's beatifull and the more you look the more you see and the more beautifull it becomes... but if your not carefull... you'll do permanant damage to yourself.



    and i don't have a 5.1 surround sound setup... i hate the system... the music and dialog comes from the front of you room and does little to help immurse you into the movie or music... i use Quadrasonic, which is double stereo: two stereo speakers in front and two in back... perfect balancing and speaker placement makes your speakers disappear and all the sound seems to comefrom all around your in perfect balance and like your really there. it really lends itself to realism and imursing yourself in the movie.

  5. #25
    Religiously tolerant. Luke122's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgrmkrp View Post
    Sorry for butting in.. but... errm.. Are you sure about the 1000x? I think it should be smaller.. say like.. 8.. or 10x max..
    Yup, you are right.. sorry about that! *blush*

    \m/ d(-_-)b \m/

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  6. #26
    Fresh Paint
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    trigger finger on the zero button ;P

  7. #27
    Religiously tolerant. Luke122's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    I blame faulty math skills.. haha. It's not an exponential increase, but I math'd it that way.

    \m/ d(-_-)b \m/

    R9 290X+Kraken+Corsair H90, Xeon 5649@4ghz, Asus P6T-WS Pro

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke122 View Post
    I blame faulty math skills.. haha. It's not an exponential increase, but I math'd it that way.

    12 db slope right?

  9. #29
    ATX Mental Case NamesAreUseless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    To me, Bose is just like the Macbook Air, It works just like all the others but it's just small, but at a large price. Why spend your money on something small, when you can get something that is more functional at a fraction of the price.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaJe View Post
    I came in here expecting furries, I leave disappointed..

  10. #30
    Undead Pirate d_stilgar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Speakers to get?

    TGS already said he got the Logitech speakers.

    My opinion of a speaker company depends on the sound recreation. I don't give a crap about numbers and figures. You can have the best numbers and still have a crap product.

    I took my Zune into some stores and hooked it up to the various speaker systems. I then listened to some of my music and decided on what I liked most. My final debate was between the Bose companion 3, and the Bose companion 5. I finally decided on the companion 3 because I found that although the companion 5 set up created a fairly good simulated surround experience, that it lost some clarity due to the multiple drivers in each speaker. I purchased the companion 3 set up and love them. I've read all the stuff about Bose being stupid and not actually having good products, but when it got right down to it, I went to the store, listened to a signal I was very familiar with on all the speakers, and liked the Bose speakers the best.

    If the drivers are so cheap, then why didn't the other companies produce speakers that could compete? Whatever Bose is doing, their speakers sound good, better than a bunch of other systems. I'm not a Bose fanboy, but they just won fair and square in a listening test.

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