Modular PSU?

[billygoat333]

Doing some research on PSUs as the current one I have will not power the 4870 I got from Blaze.

My question is this... if given a choice, would you buy a modular psu over a non-modular psu? discuss.

(also I am looking for around a 650w psu if anyone has any good recommendations :P )

[diluzio91]

Personally i would go with modular, less cable clutter. I find that every time i have had a non modular PSU i start itching to clip cables. Once cables are clipped then i lose them, long story short modular psus are easier to add things into your system with minumum clutter.

[Oneslowz28]

Grab a Thermaltake Toughpower XT 650 or a Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold. Both modular, both 80+certified and they will both power that GPU.

[farlo]

id go modular, for previously mentioned clutter reasons.

[billygoat333]

ok so what is the difference between being 80+ certified, bronze, or gold?

I know it has to do with efficiency... but what is the difference between a reg 80+ certified one and a gold certified?

[billygoat333]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS

ok so I answered my own question. Apparently 80% is just 80% across the board, while 80% bronze has a higher efficiency at certain load points. same with gold, just even higher percentages of efficiency. Platinum is the best apparently.

SO... I want a gold one then. They just happen to be expensive. haha dang. I was hoping to spend like 80 bucks on a psu... looks like I might just shell out the extra 40 bucks or so to get a better performing one.

unless someone here talks me out of spending the extra money. ;)

[dr.walrus]

Modular is great. Highest rating possible. Don't blow the budget on it.

If I'm honest, the thing I despise spending exorbitant amounts of money on PSUs. My background of building and fixing office PCs tells me that paying a minimum of £40 on a PSU is a bit mad.

However, I don't have much of a choice on having to spend money when I need reliability, good warranty support and high wattage. Just look at the supplies in the wattage range, pick on you like the look of, make sure the reviews are good, don't beat yourself up too much about it!

[blaze15301]

i went threw 3 power supplies i finally settled ont he corsair 750 its not modular but it works very well.

[dr.walrus]

The TX then? I've got a second hand HX1000 coming my way this week - £30! I'm okay with spending that much on a PSU!

[Oneslowz28]

As the PSU has the ability to fry every component in your PC if a cap or voltage reg fails I advise buying the best that you can afford. I know the CM silent pro Gold is 80+ gold and I think the Thermaltake Toughpower XT line is as well. I have both and can vouch for their stability.

I currently have

Thermaltake Toughpower 1200w
Thermaltake Toughpower XT 575w
Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 800W
Ultra X4 850W
and a Antec 500w thats in my server.

[dr.walrus]

As the PSU has the ability to fry every component in your PC if a cap or voltage reg fails I advise buying the best that you can afford.

I hear this a lot and think it's a bit OTT, like the people who go on about static mats and wriststraps (I'm inside the case, it's metal, I'm touching it, it's earthed...). Never had a branded PSU die on me. Seen a few dozen dead motherboards, the same number of dead power supplies, very rarely both. A good rule of thumb is about 10% of the total value of the build.

[PauL]

Not sure of your budget, but you can't go wrong with Corsair.

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-620HX (Modular) - $110 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002)
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX (Non-modular) - $90 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005)

The only reason I would go modular is 1) Limited room in case or 2) Going for a very clean and neat look; otherwise I dont see the point in spending the extra money.

[Kayin]

I hear this a lot and think it's a bit OTT, like the people who go on about static mats and wriststraps (I'm inside the case, it's metal, I'm touching it, it's earthed...). Never had a branded PSU die on me. Seen a few dozen dead motherboards, the same number of dead power supplies, very rarely both. A good rule of thumb is about 10% of the total value of the build.

I'm missing part of a finger from a branded supply going on me. Blew the side off, took part of the nail bed. CJ and I both are not cautioning you to hear our gums flap. Good PSUs are worth it.

If it is the appropriate tool for the job, $250 is not exorbitant to me. If and only if though.

[blaze15301]

with that card corsair was the only thing i found that could run it completely.

[SXRguyinMA]

I ran 2 3870x2's off an Ultra X3 800W (that's still kicking 4+ years later) so a 650 for a 4870 is way more than enough. I've got a newer Ultra X4 600watt in Rockin case. I went with ultra mainly because of the price, and when you register online with them you get a lifetime warranty. :D

[Oneslowz28]

I run 2 5870s, 4 200mm fans, 1 140mm fan, a 140w CPU, 5 HDD, Water Cooling, an LCD and about 15 LEDS from an 800w Silent Pro Gold.

[Kayin]

Just to let you guys know, just because you get a great power supply, things can and will happen. I had a Corsair HX520 (very first run) that caught fire last year. While the PC was running. The PC survived, and Corsair warrantied my PSU. Nothing is infallible, but believe me, I'd trust Corsair over Apevia any day of the week.

[dr.walrus]

I'm missing part of a finger from a branded supply going on me. Blew the side off, took part of the nail bed. CJ and I both are not cautioning you to hear our gums flap. Good PSUs are worth it.

If it is the appropriate tool for the job, $250 is not exorbitant to me. If and only if though.
That's a pretty epic story! But with all due respect, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have worked on literally hundreds of computers, and have never even had one catch fire. Bear in mind, this even includes the couple of power supplies I burnt out as a kid by setting the input voltage to 110v and plugging them into a 230v supply...

Like I said before, 10% of the total cost of the build - meaning a £700 mid-range system would get something like a corsair TX650 - which is about right.

If I'm building a cheap £150 workstation, do you really think I should be spending a quarter of the cost of the PC on the PSU? I would certainly agree that if I was spending £2000 on a PC, say the rig I'm upgrading to + triple 5870s, I'd need a power supply that cost easily £200.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-029-CS&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=

[SXRguyinMA]

I run 2 5870s, 4 200mm fans, 1 140mm fan, a 140w CPU, 5 HDD, Water Cooling, an LCD and about 15 LEDS from an 800w Silent Pro Gold.

my 800w was running 2 3870x2's (a 6-pin and 8-pin PCI-e on each), an overclocked Q6600, 4 120mm fans, 3 140mm fans (including cpu cooler) the Sentry 2 fan controller, and the 2 80mm fans in my OCZ memory cooler, as well as over 40 RGB LEDs throughout the system hooked to the LED rainbow kit, and it doesn't even hiccup :D

although that load has now dropped to a single 5850 (two 6-pin PCI-e's) rather than 2 3870x2's, and minus one 120mm exhaust fan (had a negative pressure effect going on, dust was coming in the vented PCI covers)

[billygoat333]

I seriously love this site... because I get the best info. :) thanx to everyone... and when I havent been awake 24+ hrs I will come back and rep everyone.

I think I will prob drop the 110 on the corsair... I think Dr. Walrus has a great rule of thumb on the ~10% of total cost.

[The boy 4rm oz]

I'm a bit late to the party but my 2 cents anyway. I have never had an issue with modular power supplies and will continue to use them. In my experience it is worth while paying extra for a brand name unit, I have had my fair share of generic ones die on me after a few months use. I have an Antec Neo HE 550w PSU that I have had for about 5 years now and is still going strong, modular and no issues at all. It powered my original PC for over a year, powered Lexa for 3 and now is powering my brothers PC after I gave him my 8800GTX.

I am building a new PC very soon and will definitely be getting another modular PSU. The Seasonic 80+ Gold 750w fully modular PSU is the flavour of the day for me.

[Konrad]

Any comments on Zalman? Good, bad, middling?

[x88x]

I'll cast another vote on the side of spending extra for a quality PSU. I have never had a PSU blow other components, but I have had a lot of PSUs die on me. I've had cheap ones die...actually, come to think of it, every single cheap (sub-$40) PSU I've ever had power a computer for any amount of time has died on me.. :thinker: I've even had some good name PSUs die on me. Most notably, a 650W Thermaltake lost all its 12V rails, then the 700W Toughpower that they sent me for a replacement lost one of its rails...the rest of it works fine, but the PCIe 12V rails are all dead. :( As a result, I don't buy Tt PSUs anymore.

IDK if I've been unlucky or you've just been incredibly lucky, dr walrus, but I am seriously amazed that you haven't seen more dead PSUs. Even the big name pre-built systems I've worked on at the various jobs I've held, I've had a lot of problems. No problems with any Dell or HP systems, but we have a bunch of Acer workstations where I work, probably about 3-4 years old now, and I kid you not, every single one has had the PSU die at one point or another. We have tons of other systems that have been fine, so I know it's not the power...they're just really sh*t PSUs. :P

I would agree though, on the 10% figure, though I would say more like 10-20%. My general rule of thumb is that if the whole computer (just the tower, not counting any peripherals) cost more than ~$500 and you spent much less than $100 on the PSU, you're doing something wrong. Heck, if I were only spending $250 (~150 BPS..sorry, no currency key for that on my keyboard..) on a computer I wouldn't be spending much on anything. :P

As has been said, you can't go wrong with Corsair. Yes, there are cases of Corsair PSUs dying, but as my recent exploding problem has demonstrated, even the best brands fail sometimes (two Asus components in my case, if you didn't see the thread). As a result of my past experiences, I am actually quite picky about my PSUs. My ratings are:
1) Corsair and PC Power & Cooling (PC P&C were legendarily good a few years ago...they had 85%+ efficiency back when most PSUs were closer to 60%. Their availability seems to have dropped drastically since OCZ bought them though..)
2) OCZ, Antec, and Kingwin
3) OCZ and Seasonic (taking into consideration the base OCZ models)

On another note, dr walrus, that is an amazing deal on that HX1000! That's a $200+ PSU! :D

For anyone wondering, the Corsair product lines go: CX<VX<GS<TX<HX<AX The AX models are absurdly expensive though. :eek:

[The boy 4rm oz]

I would rate Seasonic right up their with PCP&C, they have been one of the big name player for quite a long time now. Enermax are also rated very highly. I also rate Cooler Master pretty well, reasonable quality for the money but wouldn't touch Thermaltake if they paid me lol.

[x88x]

Yeah, IIRC Seasonic actually makes most if not all of Antec's PSUs, so they're definitely good quality, and they both usually have 5 year warranties. It's really more of a matter of I've actually used Corasir, PCP&C, OCZ, Antec, and Kingwin PSUs that gets Seasonic knocked down to the 3rd rung for me. ;)

[Konrad]

Many interesting specifications and dirty little secrets can be found by looking up the UL File Number (at the UL Online Certifications Directory (http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.html)), sort of the PSU equivalent of FCCID OET searches (http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/) (FCC doesn't really do PSUs), every PSU on the market with a UL stamp is required to show this number (somewhere on the PSU itself, usually in very, very tiny print) ...

Of course, some few PSUs don't have the minimal UL mark, or even a fakey one, so you can't look 'em up here. If I ever saw one of these cheapest of cheap PSU grenades I'd throw it out the window as quick as possible.

All of the basic stuff like individual voltage/amp/power ratings have to be properly rated, measured, and tested (UL style) and reported to the public. Doesn't matter what kinda errors the little booklet or packing slip or website tries to claim about the PSU, the real-world specs about your +12V wattages are always here.

A handful of Seasonic branded PSUs, for example, are actually made by Foxconn. Whereas a few PC Power & Cooling models are made by Seasonic. I'm not judging or accusing any particular brands or OEMs of anything nefarious here - just saying that brand name is not always what you'd expect it to be based on the box and stickers, and every brand (even the biggest, best, most trusted modder brands) might fall into this evil practice, even if only long enough to market one or two models, so it can't hurt to look yours up. A handy resource when you need PSU parts and repairs as well.

[x88x]

Thanks, I never thought to look there. +rep

[dr.walrus]

IDK if I've been unlucky or you've just been incredibly lucky, dr walrus, but I am seriously amazed that you haven't seen more dead PSUs. Even the big name pre-built systems I've worked on at the various jobs I've held, I've had a lot of problems.


I've been building and fixing computers at various levels since I was a little kid; I'm not sure how to put this, but if all cheap power supplies failed then the business world would collapse. $300 Dells come with incredibly cheap nasty power supplies but they really don't blow up all the time.

In reality, I've never built a computer with a branded power supply I've had a problem with, but the biggest problem you have is load. My brother has my old 3Ghz P4 from 2004 sans hyperthreading that last year needed a new power supply - the bearings in the power supply were so old it was falling apart! That power supply cost £10.

I'm not suggesting you buy cheap, nasty power supplies - the reason simply boils down to:
"how far can you trust something that is powering the rest of your system?"
As such, I have got to simply say, a lot of what you're buying is warranty support. Components really do matter, but you have to take a step back and say 'is this company going to replace the other parts this could potentially destroy?'. That's why well-built brands matter.

The HX-1000 is still well within its 5 year warranty - more than happy to put it into a new high-spec box as its still within warranty!



No problems with any Dell or HP systems, but we have a bunch of Acer workstations where I work, probably about 3-4 years old now, and I kid you not, every single one has had the PSU die at one point or another.

That is absolutely insane. There is no excuse for that, but it certainly isn't endemic to cheap power supplies.

10% of the total build is more than enough.


CX<VX<GS<TX<HX<AX The AX models are absurdly expensive though. :eek:

The AX are amazing though. 100% modular! Now if only I had a PC with 5870s in crossfire and a Revodrive X2 to justify such an extreme power supply!



I must make a point here about electronics built by OEMs. Contract manufacturing means that over 80% of laptops are not made by the company who put their name to them. That's right across the board with most of these things.

[x88x]

if all cheap power supplies failed then the business world would collapse. $300 Dells come with incredibly cheap nasty power supplies but they really don't blow up all the time.
Yeah, this is true. I will say, though, the cheap nasty PSUs in the $300 Dell isn't doing nearly as much as, say, the Corsair in my system, or even the Eagle in my system three generations ago that cost me $80 for a 600W back when a 500W Antec would cost you almost $200. And that's the thing...there's cheap, and then there's sh** cheap...and determining the difference is the problem. Really though, as you said, it all comes down to:

"how far can you trust something that is powering the rest of your system?"

It's sort of like insurance. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And especially when it's only <10% of the total system price difference, the extra expense is worth it to me.

[The boy 4rm oz]

Personally I think the whole cheap PSU debate comes down to how you use them. I have used cheap PSU's in small cheap business builds and yes have had a few die on me but the majority of them have lasted a reasonable amount of time. We as enthusiasts usually use high grade hardware demanding high, consistent wattages and have any number of other peripherals connected to our PCs at any one time. The strain we put on our PSU's is pretty intense. Because of this I believe that cheaper PSU's do burn out earlier than higher quality ones, for our particular needs anyway. For a standard mum or dad machine that gets used every now and again for email and stuff I have found that cheap PSU's are fine the majority of the time but for a more powerful enthusiast machine I think they just can't cope in the long run.

[Konrad]

I view investment in a quality PSU as insurance.

1) I want clean, efficient, and reliable power ... I want my system to run properly, I want it to keep running properly even during momentary spikes and brownouts on the AC line, I want to be able to depend on the PSU shutting down instead of catastrophically wrecking the other $2000 worth of components.

2) I figure that high-PSU efficiency saves a fair amount of money on my electric bill. I've seen a real difference in kilowatts, and I no longer see my lights flicker whenever I turn a computer on. Add in the fact that a quality PSU typically includes a quality cooling fan you can depend on (as opposed to a cheapish one you'd have to eventually replace, let alone any additional separate fans you'd need to install for same airflow) and the price gap begins to narrow.

3) As a hardware hacker I don't give a crap about the manufacturer's/vendor's vague warranty promises. Dealing with them is often a time-consuming and frustrating hassle anyhow (an even more frustrating one whenever I've made "forbidden" changes, although good luck explaining technical details you understand well to a bureaucratic tech who hardly understands techical details at all, let alone English). I don't want to waste my time chasing emails and being put on hold while being passed around like a hot potato on some third-world tech support hotline. I'd rather their products just don't fail in the first place and so I tend to choose (and pay a little more for) the products that I can be confident are unlikely to fail. A good PSU isn't that much more costly anyhow if you do your shopping right.

[dr.walrus]

Personally I think the whole cheap PSU debate comes down to how you use them. I have used cheap PSU's in small cheap business builds and yes have had a few die on me but the majority of them have lasted a reasonable amount of time. We as enthusiasts usually use high grade hardware demanding high, consistent wattages and have any number of other peripherals connected to our PCs at any one time. The strain we put on our PSU's is pretty intense. Because of this I believe that cheaper PSU's do burn out earlier than higher quality ones, for our particular needs anyway. For a standard mum or dad machine that gets used every now and again for email and stuff I have found that cheap PSU's are fine the majority of the time but for a more powerful enthusiast machine I think they just can't cope in the long run.
This. Though, if I'm honest, I'm not sure the relatively well spec'd machines I've had for years have needed that much power until the last 5 years! My old 256 MB Radeon 9800 P4 from many moons ago was very good for its time but I didn't need the 700w power supply i'd put in an equivalent costing system now


As a hardware hacker I don't give a crap about the manufacturer's/vendor's vague warranty promises.

..The warranty's purpose is that 'it won't fail, and this is what we'll do if it does'. It's easy to forget the first part of that, but really, the case for PSUs failing or not functioning properly is severely overstated.

Without over-estimation, I've personally owned over 30 individual computers since 2000 - I've just given away half a dozen old boxes and now I'm down to four, soon to be three (thank god!), and out of those, I've inherited I think 2 with broken power supplies - never had one give up the ghost within my possession during that time. Out of those, only a small proportion have had good quality power supplies. Most have been those cheap (and very light!) grey boxes whose only identification is a serial number and a voltage label.

Yes, maybe I've been very lucky, but I haven't been a light power user - I've owned the first generation of T-Birds, Athlon XPs and P4s, and some really cranky coolers that have looked and sounded like they should be cleaning my floor, not cooling my CPU!

My last two builds have used decent OCZ and Corsair power supplies for the simple reason I could afford them, and I really can't be doing with not having any recourse should things fail. Do they work any better? Well, my electricity bill is probably cheaper, and I've certainly had some peace of mind, but I'm not sure I can say much more than that.

So why would I say anything other than 'buy one with the right wattage (+ whatever you might add in later), buy a good one, don't spend more than 10% and don't tear your hair out over it'?

[billygoat333]

and some really cranky coolers that have looked and sounded like they should be cleaning my floor, not cooling my CPU

bahahaha!

[Konrad]

I laughed at that one, too.